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Post by Northy on Jun 24, 2016 19:49:13 GMT
Well my eldest lad is already on about emigrating to New Zealand, at least he wont keep coming back then He'll still need a visa and lots more to go there Never realised NZ was in the EU. Is Mrs Northy wearing all black in anticipation? Im not sure I cant see Im in the doghouse Again  |
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 25, 2016 11:54:39 GMT
Never realised NZ was in the EU. Is Mrs Northy wearing all black in anticipation? Im not sure I cant see Im in the doghouse Again I've told you before, no Stoke matches, no running, no cricket club sessions, no internet posting, stand to attention and don't forget to sound very, very unhappy when you're working away from home. Some blokes just won't learn  |
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Post by Northy on Jun 25, 2016 13:00:01 GMT
Im not sure I cant see Im in the doghouse Again I've told you before, no Stoke matches, no running, no cricket club sessions, no internet posting, stand to attention and don't forget to sound very, very unhappy when you're working away from home. Some blokes just won't learn It was me v the rest in our household, a few words exchanged between me n the eldest, who did start it. And I am in Belfast again now, pub at 5 for the match |
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 25, 2016 19:52:10 GMT
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 25, 2016 20:00:41 GMT
I've told you before, no Stoke matches, no running, no cricket club sessions, no internet posting, stand to attention and don't forget to sound very, very unhappy when you're working away from home. Some blokes just won't learn It was me v the rest in our household, a few words exchanged between me n the eldest, who did start it. And I am in Belfast again now, pub at 5 for the match Get me a black market passport if they're selling them. Nice to have options I didn't get any aggravation from mine after all it was only through my efforts the buggers got a vote. The worst I got was raised eyebrows from the daughter who's going to be working in Europe sometime in the future and has been corrupted by all those foreigners she mixes with at school  |
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Post by Campervan Von Bigglesworth on Jun 25, 2016 21:29:25 GMT
The issue hasn't even been immigrants, it's Muslim immigrants that are the issue I feel.
And Romanians obviously
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 10:11:20 GMT
Bloke I work with voted Leave purely because of the Polish immigrants that live and work in his town nowadays. He also hates Muslims though. To pretend that immigration wasn't a central driving force behind the Leave vote (as the Leave campaign well knew, hence their tactics, and Remain's reluctance to get involved in that side, hence their tactics) is either just wrong or an attempt to re-write history in an effort to put distance between themselves and something they'd rather not be associated with as a reason for voting Leave. Even in America they've figured this out: www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/ read halfway down. You'll see this increasingly over the next months and years, as the promises re immigration are already rolled back and diluted, there will be a lot of disappointed Leave voters. Still, Leave won't care, their vote was 'obtained' and the referendum was won |
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 26, 2016 12:49:56 GMT
Bloke I work with voted Leave purely because of the Polish immigrants that live and work in his town nowadays. He also hates Muslims though. To pretend that immigration wasn't a central driving force behind the Leave vote (as the Leave campaign well knew, hence their tactics, and Remain's reluctance to get involved in that side, hence their tactics) is either just wrong or an attempt to re-write history in an effort to put distance between themselves and something they'd rather not be associated with as a reason for voting Leave. Even in America they've figured this out: www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/ read halfway down. You'll see this increasingly over the next months and years, as the promises re immigration are already rolled back and diluted, there will be a lot of disappointed Leave voters. Still, Leave won't care, their vote was 'obtained' and the referendum was won I was brought up with a lot of Polish immigrant families who came to live in the UK after the was with Germany. Nice people who integrated into society, worked hard and contributed to society. I also enjoy a drink from time to time with the latest influx of Poles over in Crewe on a Champions League night cheering on whoever is playing Bayern Munich. Decent people so your work colleague is misguided. Where the problem arises is the number (%) in any given town and the perception that employers are giving jobs in preference to local people. There are ongoing issues with agency arrangements where jobs being created and being trumpeted as being created are only being advertised in other EU countries. Some towns like Bolsover with that well known employer Sportsdirect have excessive numbers thus changing the fabric of the town. I think it's a fair issue that has been ignored by this government and by any politician in the mainstream parties. As you've brought up both Muslims and the thoughts of the good old US of A I thought you'd like this little gem from Youtube. The first woman speaking is charming and outward looking, the second is hateful, backward looking, racist, xenophobic, let me know if I missed anything out? |
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 26, 2016 15:18:42 GMT
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Post by Dharma Bum on Jun 26, 2016 16:15:27 GMT
Don't think we'll end up leaving the EU:
1. The referendum wasn't legally binding, and parliament has the final say (with a majority of MPs in favour of remaining)
2. Apart from Farage, Corbyn and a few Eurocrats, no-one wants to trigger article 50 immediately. Cameron wants to wait until the new Tory leader is in; Johnson and Gove don't want to rush things.
3. Jocks are making a big noise about a second indy-ref/remaining in the EU/vetoing Brexit.
4. Norn Irish fears about border with Eire.
5. A % of Brexiters appear to have buyer's remorse.
6. Lots of pre-referendum promises on immigration, NHS spending etc. already being backtracked on.
7. Coup against Eurosceptic Corbyn will see the reinstatement of pro-EU Blairites into power in the Labour party.
Expect this to be sat on until October/November, when the Tories appoint their new leader (either May or Johnson), who will avoid triggering exit talks. If an early G.E is called, whichever party wins will do so on the back of a pro-EU agenda.
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 16:18:53 GMT
I was brought up with a lot of Polish immigrant families who came to live in the UK after the was with Germany. Nice people who integrated into society, worked hard and contributed to society. I also enjoy a drink from time to time with the latest influx of Poles over in Crewe on a Champions League night cheering on whoever is playing Bayern Munich. Decent people so your work colleague is misguided. Where the problem arises is the number (%) in any given town and the perception that employers are giving jobs in preference to local people. There are ongoing issues with agency arrangements where jobs being created and being trumpeted as being created are only being advertised in other EU countries. Some towns like Bolsover with that well known employer Sportsdirect have excessive numbers thus changing the fabric of the town. I think it's a fair issue that has been ignored by this government and by any politician in the mainstream parties. As you've brought up both Muslims and the thoughts of the good old US of A I thought you'd like this little gem from Youtube. The first woman speaking is charming and outward looking, the second is hateful, backward looking, racist, xenophobic, let me know if I missed anything out? Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that my colleage is misguided, but that didn't stop him and hundreds of thousands possibly millions of others just like him voting Leave on the basis of wanting Johnny Foreigner gone. Unlike my colleague they're probably not even overtly racist, they just feel the need to blame foreigners for failings in the economy and health and housing and all the other things which our own government could quite easily sort out on its own if there was the political will to do it. If employers do give jobs to foreigners in preference to local people, why is that? Because they can be trusted to work harder, for less and that suits your average businessman down to the ground. I would have thought a free market Tory such as yourself would appreciate and support the fact that that is just how the free market works. Foreigners will only come where there is work, at least 90% of them anyway, all these Polish shops clearly demomstrate an industriousness and entrepreneurial nature I would have thought a Tory would be all for. Although most of the xenophobes who voted out like my colleague only believe what the Mail and Express tell them ie that they're all benefits scroungers and rapists or just here to put pressure on housing and the NHS. I reckon most of this outlook boils down to two things: one we're a little island somewhat immature in outlook and scared by the outside world and as a result we prefer being left to operate all on our own and two we are shit at other languages so we constantly view foreigners with suspicion because we don't know what they're saying and they might be talking about us! And of course it can't be us who are the problem, it must be them. Whenever we go abroad we search out the Irish pubs or places where the expats gather because mingling with foreigners is just so terrifying! Re your video - well done on finding an example of a backward racist xenophobic muslim. They exist. No shit. So apparently do a good few million similarly minded people in this country capable of sticking an x in a box. Two wrongs don't make a right. |
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 16:25:05 GMT
Don't think we'll end up leaving the EU: 1. The referendum wasn't legally binding, and parliament has the final say (with a majority of MPs in favour of remaining) 2. Apart from Farage, Corbyn and a few Eurocrats, no-one wants to trigger article 50 immediately. Cameron wants to wait until the new Tory leader is in; Johnson and Gove don't want to rush things. 3. Jocks are making a big noise about a second indy-ref/remaining in the EU/vetoing Brexit. 4. Norn Irish fears about border with Eire. 5. A % of Brexiters appear to have buyer's remorse. 6. Lots of pre-referendum promises on immigration, NHS spending etc. already being backtracked on. 7. Coup against Eurosceptic Corbyn will see the reinstatement of pro-EU Blairites into power in the Labour party. Expect this to be sat on until October/November, when the Tories appoint their new leader (either May or Johnson), who will avoid triggering exit talks. If an early G.E is called, whichever party wins will do so on the back of a pro-EU agenda. You might be right. Maybe Farage has been used by Johnson and his gang to oust Cameron and Osborne and get him into No. 10? Whereafter he has a change of heart (he was all for IN back in February anyway which is highly suspicious!) argues that the economy can't take it and EU reform rather than exit should be the thing. Would enough Brexiters agree with that? I reckon enough might. The EU might go along with that too, it's going to have to reform anyway as a result of Brexit. |
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 26, 2016 16:53:24 GMT
Don't think we'll end up leaving the EU: 1. The referendum wasn't legally binding, and parliament has the final say (with a majority of MPs in favour of remaining) 2. Apart from Farage, Corbyn and a few Eurocrats, no-one wants to trigger article 50 immediately. Cameron wants to wait until the new Tory leader is in; Johnson and Gove don't want to rush things. 3. Jocks are making a big noise about a second indy-ref/remaining in the EU/vetoing Brexit. 4. Norn Irish fears about border with Eire. 5. A % of Brexiters appear to have buyer's remorse. 6. Lots of pre-referendum promises on immigration, NHS spending etc. already being backtracked on. 7. Coup against Eurosceptic Corbyn will see the reinstatement of pro-EU Blairites into power in the Labour party. Expect this to be sat on until October/November, when the Tories appoint their new leader (either May or Johnson), who will avoid triggering exit talks. If an early G.E is called, whichever party wins will do so on the back of a pro-EU agenda. You might be right. Maybe Farage has been used by Johnson and his gang to oust Cameron and Osborne and get him into No. 10? Whereafter he has a change of heart (he was all for IN back in February anyway which is highly suspicious!) argues that the economy can't take it and EU reform rather than exit should be the thing. Would enough Brexiters agree with that? I reckon enough might. The EU might go along with that too, it's going to have to reform anyway as a result of Brexit. The EU is incapable of reform. It's second biggest contributor threatens withdrawal from the club and it offers no concessions. It also is anti-democratic and when a result does not go the way it expects further votes ensue until it gets the right result so it's right to expect shenanigans. Interesting times ahead for all the parties who have proved beyond any doubt that they don't listen to their voters nor are they about to change any time soon. I suspect that if the UK is allowed to leave then the EU is finished in it's present form. There is a further problem for the main parties which is UKIP. There's a reason why it's the biggest party in the European elections and that's because for such a meaningless vote it's an opportunity to protest. The referendum secured Brexit so if the two main parties and the Libdems campaign against a democratic brexit vote then there is an option to protest with UKIP available. |
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Post by swampsnake on Jun 26, 2016 17:14:36 GMT
I was brought up with a lot of Polish immigrant families who came to live in the UK after the was with Germany. Nice people who integrated into society, worked hard and contributed to society. I also enjoy a drink from time to time with the latest influx of Poles over in Crewe on a Champions League night cheering on whoever is playing Bayern Munich. Decent people so your work colleague is misguided. Where the problem arises is the number (%) in any given town and the perception that employers are giving jobs in preference to local people. There are ongoing issues with agency arrangements where jobs being created and being trumpeted as being created are only being advertised in other EU countries. Some towns like Bolsover with that well known employer Sportsdirect have excessive numbers thus changing the fabric of the town. I think it's a fair issue that has been ignored by this government and by any politician in the mainstream parties. As you've brought up both Muslims and the thoughts of the good old US of A I thought you'd like this little gem from Youtube. The first woman speaking is charming and outward looking, the second is hateful, backward looking, racist, xenophobic, let me know if I missed anything out? Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that my colleage is misguided, but that didn't stop him and hundreds of thousands possibly millions of others just like him voting Leave on the basis of wanting Johnny Foreigner gone. Unlike my colleague they're probably not even overtly racist, they just feel the need to blame foreigners for failings in the economy and health and housing and all the other things which our own government could quite easily sort out on its own if there was the political will to do it. If employers do give jobs to foreigners in preference to local people, why is that? Because they can be trusted to work harder, for less and that suits your average businessman down to the ground. I would have thought a free market Tory such as yourself would appreciate and support the fact that that is just how the free market works. Foreigners will only come where there is work, at least 90% of them anyway, all these Polish shops clearly demomstrate an industriousness and entrepreneurial nature I would have thought a Tory would be all for. Although most of the xenophobes who voted out like my colleague only believe what the Mail and Express tell them ie that they're all benefits scroungers and rapists or just here to put pressure on housing and the NHS. I reckon most of this outlook boils down to two things: one we're a little island somewhat immature in outlook and scared by the outside world and as a result we prefer being left to operate all on our own and two we are shit at other languages so we constantly view foreigners with suspicion because we don't know what they're saying and they might be talking about us! And of course it can't be us who are the problem, it must be them. Whenever we go abroad we search out the Irish pubs or places where the expats gather because mingling with foreigners is just so terrifying! Re your video - well done on finding an example of a backward racist xenophobic muslim. They exist. No shit. So apparently do a good few million similarly minded people in this country capable of sticking an x in a box. Two wrongs don't make a right. Shame that you hate the people here in the UK so much perhaps you need to get out a little more and hear what they have to say perhaps you'll learn to have a little more compassion for the particularly the 17 million plus who didn't vote your way. Bashing the insular Brits for going to Irish pubs and applauding the insular Poles for opening shops to sell the food they have back at home. As for your country of choice there are stories out there of problems with immigrants, attitudes to immigrants, concerns over Merkels mass invitation and the effect on local towns and cities I've even read of cases of Germans moving to Hungary to escape the new future. Who knows what will happen when Turkey gets it's green light. Has it passed you by that France has issues with immigrants or is it just the UK that you like to focus on? I'll say it again in case you've forgotten the EU has been a problem to many people in this country over decades and not just since the Poles and other Eastern Europeans arrived in numbers. As for your Tory bashing rhetoric that's just so last year. Having a bad week with Jeremy under pressure? If only he'd stuck to his principals and voted out? Perhaps he did. |
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Post by Dharma Bum on Jun 26, 2016 17:50:16 GMT
Don't think we'll end up leaving the EU: 1. The referendum wasn't legally binding, and parliament has the final say (with a majority of MPs in favour of remaining) 2. Apart from Farage, Corbyn and a few Eurocrats, no-one wants to trigger article 50 immediately. Cameron wants to wait until the new Tory leader is in; Johnson and Gove don't want to rush things. 3. Jocks are making a big noise about a second indy-ref/remaining in the EU/vetoing Brexit. 4. Norn Irish fears about border with Eire. 5. A % of Brexiters appear to have buyer's remorse. 6. Lots of pre-referendum promises on immigration, NHS spending etc. already being backtracked on. 7. Coup against Eurosceptic Corbyn will see the reinstatement of pro-EU Blairites into power in the Labour party. Expect this to be sat on until October/November, when the Tories appoint their new leader (either May or Johnson), who will avoid triggering exit talks. If an early G.E is called, whichever party wins will do so on the back of a pro-EU agenda. You might be right. Maybe Farage has been used by Johnson and his gang to oust Cameron and Osborne and get him into No. 10? Whereafter he has a change of heart (he was all for IN back in February anyway which is highly suspicious!) argues that the economy can't take it and EU reform rather than exit should be the thing. Would enough Brexiters agree with that? I reckon enough might. The EU might go along with that too, it's going to have to reform anyway as a result of Brexit. Don't think anyone would risk trying to use Farage- he's far too dangerous, and the Brexiteers know that (hence his exclusion from the official Leave campaign)- but I think you're spot on otherwise. Johnson wants to be PM, but he'd rather deal with a broken Brexit promise than an actual exit; better to sail through choppy seas than a full-blown tsunami (to borrow Dave's metaphor!) |
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Post by Campervan Von Bigglesworth on Jun 26, 2016 20:20:40 GMT
And how many of them darkies in Calais are entrepreneurs who want to open falafel shops? Not fucking many , that's what
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 20:28:12 GMT
I have to admit, I am enjoying how all this is starting to unravel ;D The Sun and The Daily Mail have both carried stories about what Brexit means to their finances and the comments sections were fucking hilarious. I particularly loved the Sun woman who said "It would have been good to have been told this before I voted"!!! Here's another from the Daily Mail, well worth reading the comments, many of them Out voters: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3660536/Nigel-Farage-predicts-Britain-enter-recession.html ;D |
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 20:35:32 GMT
You might be right. Maybe Farage has been used by Johnson and his gang to oust Cameron and Osborne and get him into No. 10? Whereafter he has a change of heart (he was all for IN back in February anyway which is highly suspicious!) argues that the economy can't take it and EU reform rather than exit should be the thing. Would enough Brexiters agree with that? I reckon enough might. The EU might go along with that too, it's going to have to reform anyway as a result of Brexit. Don't think anyone would risk trying to use Farage- he's far too dangerous, and the Brexiteers know that (hence his exclusion from the official Leave campaign)- but I think you're spot on otherwise. Johnson wants to be PM, but he'd rather deal with a broken Brexit promise than an actual exit; better to sail through choppy seas than a full-blown tsunami (to borrow Dave's metaphor!) Quite likely on the political tactics, Dharms. He'll piss off a good number of the rabid Outies, but once the 'protest' outies realise what it all means economically, NHS, immigration etc (and have now had their protest) I wonder how many might change their mind? Enough to make it more appealing to Boris to say it's actually not worth it (especially for me politically if I fancy getting re-elected), thanks Nige but you can fuck off now! Cameron has handed BoJo a steaming turd in the shape of triggering the exit clause! I was wondering what that letter asking Cameron to stay on was for! |
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 26, 2016 20:48:15 GMT
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that my colleage is misguided, but that didn't stop him and hundreds of thousands possibly millions of others just like him voting Leave on the basis of wanting Johnny Foreigner gone. Unlike my colleague they're probably not even overtly racist, they just feel the need to blame foreigners for failings in the economy and health and housing and all the other things which our own government could quite easily sort out on its own if there was the political will to do it. If employers do give jobs to foreigners in preference to local people, why is that? Because they can be trusted to work harder, for less and that suits your average businessman down to the ground. I would have thought a free market Tory such as yourself would appreciate and support the fact that that is just how the free market works. Foreigners will only come where there is work, at least 90% of them anyway, all these Polish shops clearly demomstrate an industriousness and entrepreneurial nature I would have thought a Tory would be all for. Although most of the xenophobes who voted out like my colleague only believe what the Mail and Express tell them ie that they're all benefits scroungers and rapists or just here to put pressure on housing and the NHS. I reckon most of this outlook boils down to two things: one we're a little island somewhat immature in outlook and scared by the outside world and as a result we prefer being left to operate all on our own and two we are shit at other languages so we constantly view foreigners with suspicion because we don't know what they're saying and they might be talking about us! And of course it can't be us who are the problem, it must be them. Whenever we go abroad we search out the Irish pubs or places where the expats gather because mingling with foreigners is just so terrifying! Re your video - well done on finding an example of a backward racist xenophobic muslim. They exist. No shit. So apparently do a good few million similarly minded people in this country capable of sticking an x in a box. Two wrongs don't make a right. Shame that you hate the people here in the UK so much perhaps you need to get out a little more and hear what they have to say perhaps you'll learn to have a little more compassion for the particularly the 17 million plus who didn't vote your way. Bashing the insular Brits for going to Irish pubs and applauding the insular Poles for opening shops to sell the food they have back at home. As for your country of choice there are stories out there of problems with immigrants, attitudes to immigrants, concerns over Merkels mass invitation and the effect on local towns and cities I've even read of cases of Germans moving to Hungary to escape the new future. Who knows what will happen when Turkey gets it's green light. Has it passed you by that France has issues with immigrants or is it just the UK that you like to focus on? I'll say it again in case you've forgotten the EU has been a problem to many people in this country over decades and not just since the Poles and other Eastern Europeans arrived in numbers. As for your Tory bashing rhetoric that's just so last year. Having a bad week with Jeremy under pressure? If only he'd stuck to his principals and voted out? Perhaps he did. Blimey, calm down dear, you won, remember, or does it not feel like that anymore? Can't say I'm surprised, I'd be feeling more than a little conned and embarrassed if I was you too Anyway, no European question to bother the remaining Parliamentary Tory Party, a proper rightwing government soon to be in place, none of this One Nation bollocks Cameron was into, absolutely no opposition whatsoever to hold you to task, your Little England should shortly be some kind of Utopia, right? I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like. Just one question - who will you blame if it doesn't become a modern 21st century paradise? |
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Post by The Turtle on Jun 27, 2016 22:54:38 GMT
Oooooooh, its all going a bit shit isn't it. Pound fucked again today.UK companies particularly badly hit on the FTSE, credit rating lower than during the financial crisis, dickheads abusing foreigners everywhere. We haven't even started yet either.
In all honesty, and I promise not to take the piss, anyone regretting voting Leave?
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