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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Feb 21, 2016 11:41:51 GMT
Unequivocally in.
I try to ignore most media outlets as much as possible and form my own opinions (generally keeping them to myself on here), can see little to no reason to leave personally.
Let's face it xenophobia in the sense it's being banded around re the referendum is just a fancy more acceptable term for racism.
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Post by Campervan Von Bigglesworth on Feb 21, 2016 11:49:33 GMT
Hmmm, it's a dangerous slope. When the Irish government was implimenting the bank guarantee , it wanted to burn bond holders like Roman abramovic who had gambled vast sums on unsecured bonds , and the ECB threatened Ireland with withdrawal of credit if it did so which meant the Irish tax payers had to pay an additional 9 billion to gambling oligogarchs , that doesn't sound particularly equitable ...... The EU is still largely run to serve the interests of France and Germany ...
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 21, 2016 12:25:05 GMT
Let's face it xenophobia in the sense it's being banded around re the referendum is just a fancy more acceptable term for racism. Correct. (If people from France, Poland wherever are a different 'race' at all, but you're right). More accurately I suppose it's 'us' and 'them', with them being anyone non-British born and bred. There are more than enough divisions in the world already without creating reasons for more. |
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Post by Northy on Feb 21, 2016 13:05:24 GMT
If Dave wants in, I'm out
and then shake it all about
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 13:41:30 GMT
There's a difference here. There'll be a unified approach from all the political parties all coming together with that message of fear of break up this time backed by the SNP as well. The reality of the EU is that proud nations like Greece have been turned into dependencies. The EU doesn't work take the fine recent programme by Simon Reeves on the state of Greece as an example. The EU doesn't control borders and eventually somewhere down the line there'll be a price to pay in more than cash. It's difficult to imagine being xenophobic to an institution. I heard the phrase from a Labour? politician yesterday Love Europe hate the EU which possibly makes a distinction between the two. Of course there are people out there who want to blur the edges to bring a racist slur to the debate. As for Westminster the public in the UK get a meaningful vote every five years to get rid of it's incumbents. The UK public has never had a meaningful vote on the EU. The original vote allegedly hade nothing to do with political union. Not really, you only have to glance through the pages of the Daily Mail, a so-called mid-ranking tabloid, to see that fear of something is behind most of its stories. Politicians know this appeals on a mass basis. Edit: since I wrote this Ian Duncan Smith has come out to try to scare us into thinking terrorism will increase if we stay in. All about fear on both sides, always is. I saw that Reeve programme, it was excellent. From what I could see, most Greeks chose whether to pay taxes or not and there was huge wealth inequality there, neither of which had any direct descent from the EU, but were the main source of its debt problems. Greece should clearly not have been allowed into the group and that's the fault of both the Greek national politicians who obviously lied about their economic status and the EU for not checking enough. But that's like saying our democracy should be got rid of because UKIP got 4million votes at the last election and just one MP. No, it needs reform not chucking out, on the whole it provides a safe and stable platform for transition of governments. The EU, for all its institutional faults just like every other institution, is the same, on the whole, it does what it sets out to, provide cohesion to a historically war riddled continent and help out poorer countries, both admirable aims. We've had multiple governments of both types since 1973 and none has ever been in favour of leaving or offering a vote to do so. I wonder why not if the benefits are so great? I'm afraid I think xenophobia plays a very significant part in all this whether you or I choose to acknowledge it or not. You will hear many times over the next few months a comment which boils down to "we don't want to be told what to do by them" ie Johnny foreigner. I don't read the Mail, never have. The only reason we're getting this referendum is because of UKIP. Cameron had to promise one to hold onto his Eurosceptic voters not that it will matter because the UK will vote to stay in. I suspect the likes of Ian Duncan Smith are following the scare tactics of the pro EU campaigners like yesterdays "Leap in the dark" comments from Cameron. They're all at it anyone can pick and choose comments. Greece should never have been allowed in to the EU. The EU bent it's own rules to allow entry. The EU encouraged rapid development of economies to bring in particular the southern European countries up to the standard of the richer northern states but it's been a disaster. I'm aware of the situation in Greece if the EU had any conscience they would be bailed out purely out of shame. Countries like Spain are similar with stories of never used infrastructure, airports, roads etc and Brits over there helping out with charity perhaps even whilst taking the Daily Mail. We're going to have to disagree about your xenophobia comments. Most people I speak to on the subject - and it isn't many - have no issues with Europe or Europeans and understand the distinction between Europe and the EU. |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 13:44:04 GMT
Hmmm, it's a dangerous slope. When the Irish government was implimenting the bank guarantee , it wanted to burn bond holders like Roman abramovic who had gambled vast sums on unsecured bonds , and the ECB threatened Ireland with withdrawal of credit if it did so which meant the Irish tax payers had to pay an additional 9 billion to gambling oligogarchs , that doesn't sound particularly equitable ...... The EU is still largely run to serve the interests of France and Germany ... There's a fair chunk of that farm subsidy budget that finds it's way to wealthy France I would imagine.  |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 13:46:16 GMT
If Dave wants in, I'm out and then shake it all about They all want in and ,of course, you can always trust a politician |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 15:38:08 GMT
Breaking news from the BBC. "Mayor of London Boris Johnson is to campaign to leave the EU in the UK's referendum, BBC understands" At last a serious politician with gravitas enters the fray  |
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Post by Campervan Von Bigglesworth on Feb 21, 2016 16:39:48 GMT
I work with someone who worked with him and she says he definitely plays up on the amiable duffer thing in public ....
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 21, 2016 17:21:53 GMT
Not really, you only have to glance through the pages of the Daily Mail, a so-called mid-ranking tabloid, to see that fear of something is behind most of its stories. Politicians know this appeals on a mass basis. Edit: since I wrote this Ian Duncan Smith has come out to try to scare us into thinking terrorism will increase if we stay in. All about fear on both sides, always is. I saw that Reeve programme, it was excellent. From what I could see, most Greeks chose whether to pay taxes or not and there was huge wealth inequality there, neither of which had any direct descent from the EU, but were the main source of its debt problems. Greece should clearly not have been allowed into the group and that's the fault of both the Greek national politicians who obviously lied about their economic status and the EU for not checking enough. But that's like saying our democracy should be got rid of because UKIP got 4million votes at the last election and just one MP. No, it needs reform not chucking out, on the whole it provides a safe and stable platform for transition of governments. The EU, for all its institutional faults just like every other institution, is the same, on the whole, it does what it sets out to, provide cohesion to a historically war riddled continent and help out poorer countries, both admirable aims. We've had multiple governments of both types since 1973 and none has ever been in favour of leaving or offering a vote to do so. I wonder why not if the benefits are so great? I'm afraid I think xenophobia plays a very significant part in all this whether you or I choose to acknowledge it or not. You will hear many times over the next few months a comment which boils down to "we don't want to be told what to do by them" ie Johnny foreigner. We're going to have to disagree about your xenophobia comments. Most people I speak to on the subject - and it isn't many - have no issues with Europe or Europeans and understand the distinction between Europe and the EU. You should read The Oatcake if you can bear it ;D, or listen to all the rightwing papers and 'ordinary' folk bleating about first the Poles coming over, then all the Romanians and none of them work but get all the benefits and send it straight back to Poland and Romania! A lot of this is all about them and us I'm afraid. Call it xenophobia, racism, them and us, same principle. "Why should we contribute towards something which doesn't [appear to] have any benefit for us" (my brackets obviously!) will be the statement you hear again and again over the next few months. Stafford Stokie has already stated it on here. He clearly doesn't give a shit about helping out less fortunate countries elsewhere which is what the EU is designed to do. That's his opinion which is fair enough but it will epitomise a huge swathe of those wanting to leave. It's a sad fact but I think the UK (more precisely England) has always been like that, probably a result of living on an island. I'm somewhat amazed we ever voted to join in the first place, but I think we've become a lot more fuck you I'm all right in the last 35 years so maybe we weren't quite so self-obsessed back then what with the war being a more recent memory. |
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 21, 2016 17:34:24 GMT
Who's this campaigning for remaining in Europe? Why, it's Britain's greatest ever Prime Minister TM ;D  |
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Post by happycarrot on Feb 21, 2016 18:35:30 GMT
We're going to have to disagree about your xenophobia comments. Most people I speak to on the subject - and iinsult isn't many - have no issues with Europe or Europeans and understand the distinction between Europe and the EU. You should read The Oatcake if you can bear it ;D, or listen to all the rightwing papers and 'ordinary' folk bleating about first the Poles coming over, then all the Romanians and none of them work but get all the benefits and send it straight back to Poland and Romania! A lot of this is all about them and us I'm afraid. Call it xenophobia, racism, them and us, same principle. "Why should we contribute towards something which doesn't [appear to] have any benefit for us" (my brackets obviously!) will be the statement you hear again and again over the next few months. Stafford Stokie has already stated it on here. He clearly doesn't give a shit about helping out less fortunate countries elsewhere which is what the EU is designed to do. That's his opinion which is fair enough but it will epitomise a huge swathe of those wanting to leave. It's a sad fact but I think the UK (more precisely England) has always been like that, probably a result of living on an island. I'm somewhat amazed we ever voted to join in the first place, but I think we've become a lot more fuck you I'm all right in the last 35 years so maybe we weren't quite so self-obsessed back then what with the war being a more recent memory. The resident f@ckwit, RAF on that site was always the oracle of all discussions. Never have I seen a bloke talk so much shite and get a hammering like a French hooker's front bottom yet still try to insult others. No idea if he still posts or was put to sleep for his own good. |
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Post by RickyFullerBeer on Feb 21, 2016 19:35:57 GMT
Who's this campaigning for remaining in Europe? Why, it's Britain's greatest ever Prime Minister TM ;D Snazzy jumper |
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Post by Northy on Feb 21, 2016 19:44:57 GMT
Who's this campaigning for remaining in Europe? Why, it's Britain's greatest ever Prime Minister TM ;D Is that after she secured the £63bn rebate and before Brown and Blair sold out on our rebate to the equivalent of 60000 nurses a year? |
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Post by Northy on Feb 21, 2016 19:46:28 GMT
Breaking news from the BBC. "Mayor of London Boris Johnson is to campaign to leave the EU in the UK's referendum, BBC understands" At last a serious politician with gravitas enters the fray He must have had that hat given to him for free. |
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 21, 2016 20:19:37 GMT
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 20:25:09 GMT
Breaking news from the BBC. "Mayor of London Boris Johnson is to campaign to leave the EU in the UK's referendum, BBC understands" At last a serious politician with gravitas enters the fray He must have had that hat given to him for free. An actual hat or his barnet? |
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Post by EnricoPalazzo on Feb 21, 2016 20:41:59 GMT
Who's this campaigning for remaining in Europe? Why, it's Britain's greatest ever Prime Minister TM ;D Snazzy jumper I wouldn't fuck her. |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 21, 2016 20:48:32 GMT
Be like turkeys voting for Christmas if they wanted us to leave with that significant net contribution that we make to political union |
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Post by happycarrot on Feb 21, 2016 20:53:47 GMT
What about Eurovision? Do the UK still get the chance to get Nil points from Ireland and Scandanavia every year? Tank God for Malta and Upper Serbigrovia though
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