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Post by swampsnake on Feb 24, 2016 18:34:29 GMT
I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine, an out voter, a few days ago and the subject of Dave and his referendum came up. His biggest gripe among many is the regulation and red tape. His business has been affected by regulation this particular one regarding glass and it's cost him £000s. The consensus between us was this. There were two possible outcomes for the Conservative party in the election which would lead to them being the largest party seeking coalition or alternatively the second largest party out of government. To get the maximum number of votes and to counter UKIP he needed to offer the referendum he knew he couldn't deliver. In another coalition the Libdems wouldn't allow it. Imagine his shock on the outright victory. Yougov normally very, very reliable could  Love him or loathe him he fought tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the UK during project Independence fear  I have a similar problem We have the EU Emissions Trading Scheme The EU energy efficiency directive, Energy Savings Opportunity Sschem The EU Energy performance of buildings directive The UK Carbon reduction Scheme We have had to take on an extra person in our small group this week just to cope with all the admin for all the schemes that could come under 1 It's a fookin shambles Just imagine you were a one/two man band and you had to pay for outsourced expertise and found it difficult to pass those costs on. The glass directive in question was taken up initially by Finland, Denmark and the UK. |
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 24, 2016 18:40:03 GMT
Stafford stokie posted his views on here of his own free will long before I brought him into the conversation! The fact that they happen to back up precisely what I said about some people's views on Europe and whether to stay or not you've conveniently ignored. Earlier you complained that I was bringing immigration into the in out debate when it was a separate issue. To quote: "its a shame that you now have to try and bring immigration into it which is an entirely different question". I've just showed you that it isn't, its well up there in the out voters reasons for wanting to leave. Isn't the reality the fact that you, as a probable out voter, don't want to be associated with such sentiments since they're probably not your reasons for voting to leave and are very much of the xenophobic variety! Perfectly understandable but doesn't invalidate anything I said. Immigration and the 'them and us' aspect are at the very heart of the out campaign, whether or not you acknowledge it, choose to admit it on here or want it to be false! Yougov is one of the main polling companies in the UK. I hope you enjoyed your run Mmmm Stafford Stokie so you keep quoting one poster as a good sample to back up this view you've been peddling. Immigration is part of the issue of control and sovereignty for many people including some that on balance may vote in. You seem to be unable to be able to distinguish the difference between those legitimate concerns those people might have and them being racist. You're obviously intelligent therefore on balance I believe that you're being disingenuous. I know what Yougov is I don't know whether it has any political persuasion I'm not telling you which way I'm going to vote save to say that my very first vote was to join the Common Market. OK, so immigration isn't a separate question after all as you previously claimed. Glad we at least got that agreed. We're getting somewhere I didn't see immigration in the top reasons for the remain voters as opposed to the out lot but if you can find it I'd love to see it! There's only about 20 of us who post on here, even fewer on this thread. Of the out brigade on this thread of which there appears to be five, three have basically backed up precisely what I said about them and us, foreigners, xenophobia, whatever term you want to use. Other than arguing for the sake of it, I'm not sure why you disagree! |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 24, 2016 18:49:19 GMT
I'd still like to hear your personal views on the following:
Do you really think there's no distinction between immigration and controlled immigration as practised in countries such as USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the like?
From your comment on an earlier post do you see no problem in unlimited immigration for either economic migrants or genuine refugees or even any distinction?
There was a report earlier suggesting that the number of migrant entrants into Greece has now reached a level that is 10 times more than this time last year presumably heading towards Germany initially. Do people in this country not have a right to be concerned about immigration?
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 24, 2016 18:49:57 GMT
In addition to the above Germany is now reporting a backlog of 700,000 asylum applications with reports of successful applicants making requests to bring family over. It's my understanding that once they receive a German passport they can move on to another member state. The whole situation is a mess. Sweden enforcing border controls with Denmark and Denmark looking to do likewise on it's southern border. Razor wire and fences going up in Hungary and the surrounding states. Xenophobia and racism rife across the member states before I even get to Le Penn I'm surprised you don't want to vote out |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 24, 2016 18:59:37 GMT
There's only about 20 of us who post on here, even fewer on this thread. Of the out brigade on this thread, two have basically backed up precisely what I said about them and us, foreigners, xenophobia, whatever term you want to use. Other than arguing for the sake of it, I'm not sure why you disagree!
[/u][/b] Because you're branding the English, the Oatcake posters on that thread, anyone who votes out as potential racists and xenophobes. I think people have a right to be concerned about uncontrolled immigration without being labelled. |
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 24, 2016 19:18:25 GMT
I'd still like to hear your personal views on the following: Do you really think there's no distinction between immigration and controlled immigration as practised in countries such as USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the like? From your comment on an earlier post do you see no problem in unlimited immigration for either economic migrants or genuine refugees or even any distinction? There was a report earlier suggesting that the number of migrant entrants into Greece has now reached a level that is 10 times more than this time last year presumably heading towards Germany initially. Do people in this country not have a right to be concerned about immigration? ;D you really won't back down will you! I've quoted you directly about immigration being apparently a separate question and shown you it isn't. Just accept it, it doesnt lessen you in any way! This latest series of questions is just going off at a tangent for smokescreen purposes. But for the sake of answering, when did I ever say anything on what i thought about controlled or uncontrolled immigration? Yet you start a question "Do you really not think...etc as if you think I have said something about it! My point has always been that it is central to a large proportion of the out voters reasons for leaving. Which it is. My views on immigration, controlled, uncontrolled, economic, asylum or otherwise and whether or not the British people have a right to be concerned about it are irrelevant. The fact remains that a lot of the out voters reasons for leaving are based on 'them and us', whether or not that is the institution of the EU not being 'us' or foreign migrants not being 'us'. So it doesn't matter if the fact is unpalatable to you as it appears to be (or perhaps you just fancy a good argument ) it doesn't change its validity. A lot of the out vote is simple xenophobia, not wanting anyone else coming to this country, not wanting 'our' money to go to foreigners and not wanting foreigners to have a say in our affairs. You might not like it but that's what people say when asked! What else do you want to call other than wanting less to do with foreigners! For clarity, I'm not expressing an opinion either way about those facts, just stating that they are the facts and form the basis of many out voters reasons for leaving. |
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Post by happycarrot on Feb 24, 2016 20:47:01 GMT
Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn
Tune and a half
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Post by JonesInAMillion on Feb 24, 2016 21:42:42 GMT
If we're out of the eu will duty free be cheap as fuck again?
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Post by EnricoPalazzo on Feb 24, 2016 22:20:34 GMT
If we're out of the eu will duty free be cheap as fuck again? I've questioned the same thing. |
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Post by RickyFullerBeer on Feb 24, 2016 22:38:30 GMT
If we're out of the eu will duty free be cheap as fuck again? Now were getting to the important stuff |
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Post by EnricoPalazzo on Feb 24, 2016 23:10:57 GMT
If we're out of the eu will duty free be cheap as fuck again? Now were getting to the important stuff Like |
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Post by Northy on Feb 25, 2016 7:23:02 GMT
I have a similar problem We have the EU Emissions Trading Scheme The EU energy efficiency directive, Energy Savings Opportunity Sschem The EU Energy performance of buildings directive The UK Carbon reduction Scheme We have had to take on an extra person in our small group this week just to cope with all the admin for all the schemes that could come under 1 It's a fookin shambles Just imagine you were a one/two man band and you had to pay for outsourced expertise and found it difficult to pass those costs on. The glass directive in question was taken up initially by Finland, Denmark and the UK. Just noticed I can't spell scheme ... |
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Feb 25, 2016 11:32:43 GMT
If we're out of the eu will duty free be cheap as fuck again? Now were getting to the important stuff Like |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 25, 2016 21:20:13 GMT
At least we're getting a referendum remember this weasel splitting hairs over the wording of a treaty? .....and he didn't even bother to produce a dossier to back his case. Asked whether the treaty he (Blair) had in mind would require a referendum, he said: "No. If it's not a constitutional treaty, so that it alters the basic relationship between Europe and the member states, then there isn't the same case for a referendum" Campers, was this the one that the Irish had at least two votes on until they gave the right answer? |
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Post by Campervan Von Bigglesworth on Feb 26, 2016 9:19:17 GMT
Can't remember, we have loads of em over here , still, it's nice to get asked
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Post by The Turtle on Feb 26, 2016 10:11:38 GMT
If we leave does that mean all the farmers will lose their subsidies?
Vote out ;D
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Post by happycarrot on Feb 26, 2016 11:13:43 GMT
I don't trust farners, next thing they'll be getting passports for chickens and cows if we leave the EU and shipping them all to Central America and setting up new colonies.
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 26, 2016 17:45:44 GMT
Can't remember, we have loads of em over here , still, it's nice to get asked Here we go After the Maastricht Treaty was rejected by voters in Denmark a batch of concessions were made, a second vote was held and the Treaty passed. Ireland's initial rejection of the Lisbon Treaty was also followed by a second referendum and a different result. |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 26, 2016 18:07:52 GMT
If we leave does that mean all the farmers will lose their subsidies? Vote out ;D We're a net contributor to the EU therefore if this government wished it could pay the same contributions and have some money left over for the NHS, mental health, homelessness, education and providing social housing, etc, etc. Perhaps we may even take a long hard look at the farming industry to find a better way to make it work for us instead of trying to fit into the one size fits all policy and get rid the industry of that extra layer of regulation. The biggest problem for the farming industry regarding the vote is that this government seeks a yes vote therefore it's not in there interest to alleviate any fears the farming industry has about an exit. Here's a graph showing who pays what in the EU. The "net contributions" is net of Thatcher's hard earned rebate as mentioned earlier by Northy in the let's ridicule Thatcher posting. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start |
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Post by swampsnake on Feb 26, 2016 23:34:13 GMT
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